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on March 04 2013 22:31:13
Good find, thank you. |
on March 05 2013 00:31:12
I'm completely blown away by this. I remember being taught about desertification, exactly like he says - not only wrong information, but the opposite of right.
I know one must be careful not to be too optimistic. This might not be the whole story, like the myriad of "we have found the cure for cancer" news items I've read over the years. Yet this is the first positive thing connected to climate change I've come across in a long time. That has to count for something.
P.S maybe it is time to reevaluate faroese sheep herding practices  |
on March 05 2013 10:37:28
P.S maybe it is time to reevaluate faroese sheep herding practices
Why? Have you seen much desertification here? |
on March 05 2013 10:55:11
No desertification, but there is much barren land - caused by wind erosion though (I have been told). Still, it is my understanding, that it is the moving of livestock in herds mimicking how these animals once roamed naturally, that not only can reverse desertification, but improve soil yields regardless, and who knows, maybe having a huge herd of sheep stampeding about, could help restore soil to some of our barren land as well. But yeah, it is complicated, and there is no single solution to fix everything. |
on March 05 2013 12:35:50
There is plenty of desertification going on in the Faroes, which here manifests itself by loss of top soil from wind erosion. Have some good photos of it here on Gongumenn, for instance here.
I think the problem in the Faroes is not similar to the one he is discussing for two reasons:
Firstly he divides climates into those which are experiencing a wet and dry season, and those who have plentiful rainfall all year round - and guess where the Faroes end up
Secondly we do not have problems with oxidation from too much cover, nor does our land lack nutrients when sheep are not grazing. We have problems from too little top soil cover and too heavy grazing, which makes the top soil susceptible to wind erosion. Then the nutrients get washed away in the constant rain.
But as with the areas he is describing there are natural solutions to this. As an example, areas in the Faroes where sheep are removed, and where the avian fauna is allowed to build up colonies instead have a much higher growth rate, retention of nutrients etc. I'd suggest it's because the natural fauna of the Faroe Islands is avian and not ovis... |
on March 05 2013 14:24:23
That makes sense and I have heard it before, but pardon me for being a bit skeptical after this talk about how removal of livestock only has made problems worse. As an experiment it could be interesting to test that claim by trying holistic management with drastically increased sheep numbers on some part of the islands. If you are right, it should be evident pretty quickly.
Although I grant you that there is no silver bullet - a specific solution has to be tailored to each specific environment. |
on March 05 2013 16:02:26
Again I refer you to the qualifying statement he made at the beginning: Two types of land, one that sees plentiful of rainfall year round, where nature has no problem coming back from an arid state if you just leave it be, and then one that sees seasonal rainfall - which his talk covers.
It's at 1:50 and onwards. |
on March 05 2013 16:39:28
Not quite the qualifying statement you make it out to be:
"We have environments where humidity is guaranteed throughout the year. On those it is almost impossible to create areas of open ground no matter what you do; nature covers it up so quickly. And we have environments where we have months of humidity followed by months of dryness and that is where desertification is occurring."
At no point does he specifically state that holistic management is detrimental in humidity guaranteed environments. He simply says that it does not matter since there is no problem. Yet as you point out, we have areas of open ground up here, which clearly aren't being covered up by nature "no matter what you do". Hence I don't see how this statement is relevant. |
on March 05 2013 16:48:25
Anyhow, I finally found something to temper my enthusiasm:
critique of HM:
http://www.publiclandsranching.org/htmlres/wr_donut_diet.htm |
on March 05 2013 19:11:27
I'm saying that his talk covers a specific land type, that is what he's done his research on - that is the qualifying statement he makes. This specific land type covers a lot of Earth's landmass, but not the Faroe Islands. He goes on to show it graphically several times throughout the talk.
As for our open spaces. If you take the sheep off and let the birds nest in peace it recovers quite quickly, as guano and other detritus becomes fertile soil. Guano is one of the best compounds in existence for this, and the Faroes have it in abundance. There are other options, like the land-use management that you see in Koltur for instance. |
on March 05 2013 20:06:53
I know what his talk covers, and I never disputed that point. Given that he does not concern himself with our type of environment at all, it leaves room for trying them here - especially since, if he is right, so much of what we think we know about this stuff could very well be wrong.
You might not think they work here, he might not care, I think it would be interesting to test.
I would also very much like to test your theory about the birds, but it seems to me, that there are other factors which are harder to isolate, A case in point being the gradual disappearance of puffins from the islands - no sheep disturbing them where they nest. Are you talking about the benefit of larger colonies of birds or just the same number of birds as now? Seems to me we would need a colony to make an impact. |
on March 05 2013 20:36:03
More talking about "heiðafulgur", i.e. birds that do not roost in cliffs. Puffins are borderline, as they roost in holes on soil near cliffs.
It has been tested at Eiðiskollur, with great success, and parts of Nolsoy with great success.
Furthermore some of the things covered is going back to how things used to be, in the Faroes there is not a case of that, since things, i.e. pastoral herding of sheep, is exactly like it was 500-100 years ago. The "markatal" is the same and the sheep per mark is similar. The only significant difference is the change of sheep species around 1600 AD.
But go ahead and test it, since we do have a proven way of fixing it we can always fix your fuckup afterwards |
on March 06 2013 09:50:31
I haven't heard anything about these great successes, but I haven't researched this either. In any case awesome if it is possible to reverse desertification that way. I thought sheep in the Faroes dated back to the earliest settlers 500 A.D.
Anyhow, as soon as I get my hands on some merkur I'll get right on it |
on March 06 2013 12:07:29
Go to fornminnusavni and you'll see taxidermied examples of how the sheep used to be before 1600 AD. Oh wait you already did and I remember us talking about it - on the magic ring of curing nosebleeds trip.
:P |
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Profound
